关于素食主义的辩论：如何改变他人的观点？

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[00:11.72]Dan: Hello and welcome to 6 Minute English. I'm Dan and joining me is Rob.	大家好，欢迎收听六分钟英语。我是丹，今天和我一起主持节目的是罗布。
[00:16.93]Rob: Hello.	大家好。
[00:17.68]Dan: Here at BBC Learning English, we're always discussing diets.	在BBC英语学习节目中，我们经常讨论节食这个话题。
[00:21.22]Rob: I am on a sea-food diet. 我正在假节食（seafood diet即see food diet）。
[00:23.62]When I see food, I just have to eat it!	当我看到食物，我就不得不吃掉它们。
[00:26.80]Dan: I suppose there's no chance of converting you to a vegan diet, is there? 我想你应该不可能改为吃纯素吧，对吗？
[00:29.98]That seems be the most talked about food fad at the moment - a fad is something that is popular but only for a short time.	素食主义饮食是目前谈论最多的饮食新食尚――“a fad”是一种流行的东西，但往往只会流行很短一段时间。
[00:36.85]Rob: Of course, veganism - that's not eating or using any products that come from animals - may be more than a fad. 当然，素食主义是指不吃或不使用任何来自动物的制品，素食主义可能不仅仅是一种时尚，
[00:43.81]It could be a lifestyle that improves our health and the planet. 素食可以是一种改善我们健康以及保护地球的生活方式。
[00:47.47]And it could be here to stay. 这种生活方式可能会一直持续下去。
[00:48.90]But personally, me becoming a vegan would take some persuading.	但就我个人而言，要想让我成为一名素食主义者得需要把我说服才行。
[00:53.10]Dan: I'm sure it would. 我肯定你会被说服的。
[00:54.20] And in this programme we'll be discussing the debate about veganism and how it's sometimes difficult to change people's minds. 在这期节目中，我们将讨论关于素食主义的辩论，以及有时候改变人们的想法有多难。
[01:00.43]But first a question to answer. 但首先，要回答一个问题。
[01:02.97]We've mentioned what a vegan eats but what about a lacto-ovo-vegetarian? Which one of these items can they eat? Is it: a) pork     b) fish or  c) cheese?	我们已经提到过素食主义者吃什么，那么乳蛋素食主义者又吃什么呢？他们可以吃以下食物中的哪一种？是a) 猪肉  b）鱼  还是 c)奶酪？
[01:16.11]Rob: I'll say b) they can eat fish.	我选b)，乳蛋素食主义者可以吃鱼。
[01:18.81]Dan: Well, you'll have to wait until the end of the programme to find out. 嗯，你得等到节目结束才能知道答案了。
[01:22.28]But now back to veganism. 	但现在回到素食主义这个话题。
[01:24.40]According to some national surveys, there are now around 3.5 million full-time vegans in the UK... 根据一些全国性的调查，现在英国约有350万名完全素食主义者。
[01:31.99]and the number is growing!而且这一数字还在增加！
[01:33.72]Rob: And what was recently a radical lifestyle choice is slowly moving into the mainstream - or has become accepted by most people as normal.	最近一种极端的生活方式正在慢慢成为主流，或者说已被大多数人接受，成为了一种正常的生活方式。
[01:42.29]Dan: Advocates of veganism say their healthy lifestyle would also free up space and resources for growing food and it would help reduce greenhouse gas emissions.	素食主义的支持者称，他们健康的生活方式也将腾出空间和资源来种植植物，这将有助于减少温室气体的排放。
[01:51.94]Rob: Yeah, but come on Dan. 是的，不过话说回来，丹，
[01:53.20]Having a meat-free diet means you might not get all the nutrients you need.	无肉饮食意味着你可能无法获得所需的所有营养。
[01:56.71]Dan: Well, this is all part of the debate, Rob. 嗯，这正是辩论一部分的，罗布。
[01:59.23]There's always two sides to an argument and it's something that's been discussed on BBC Radio 4's Farming Today programme. 争论总有正反两面，这正是BBC广播4台《今日农业》节目中所讨论的话题。
[02:05.64]They spoke to Dr Jutta Tobias Mortlock, a senior lecturer in organisational psychology at London's City University, 他们采访了伦敦城市大学组织心理学高级讲师朱塔・托拜厄斯・马忒拉克博士，
[02:13.29]who explained why views about veganism are so polarised - that 'means causing people to divide into two groups with opposing views'.	他解释了为什么关于素食主义的观点如此两极分化，“polarised”（观点分化）的意思是“造成人们分成了两组持有的观点相反的人”。
[02:21.66]This issue touches on personal beliefs, and beliefs always trump facts and so, often when we talk about beliefs, we're touching on important values. 这个问题涉及到个人信仰，而信仰总是凌驾于事实之上，所以，当我们谈论信仰时，我们经常会涉及到重要的价值观。
[02:31.71]Values are the things that guide our opinion over what's right versus what's wrong. 价值观是引导我们判断对错的东西。
[02:36.57]And so whenever people argue over whether it's right or wrong to eat meat, they are in fact not debating the facts around this issue, 所以当人们争论吃肉是对是错的时候，他们实际上并不是在争论这个问题的事实，
[02:43.41]they're actually debating the beliefs about what's moral or immoral about this.	他们实际上是在辩论关于这个问题是道德的还是不道德的的信念。
[02:47.65]Dan: So it seems in the whole debate about veganism we are basing our views on beliefs. 所以在关于素食主义的整个辩论中，我们的观点都基于信仰。
[02:54.00]A belief is something we feel is true or real. “belief”（信念）就是我们觉得什么是对或者最重要的东西。
[02:57.52]Our beliefs are based on our values - those are the things we think are right and wrong.	我们的信念基于我们的价值观，这是我们判断是非对错的依据。
[03:02.29]Rob: And when we argue over the rights and wrongs of veganism, we base it on our values - not hard facts. 当我们争论纯素食主义是对是错时，我们时基于我们的价值观，而不是铁的事实。
[03:08.88]We talk about our view on what is immoral - so what society thinks is wrong or not acceptable. 我们谈论我们对什么是不道德的看法，以及社会大众认为是错误的或不可接受的事。
[03:14.72]But basically, there is no right or wrong answer.	但基本上，答案没有对错之分。
[03:17.46]Dan: That's why we need facts, Rob.	这就是为什么我们需要讲事实，罗伯。
[03:19.26]Rob: So Dan, what can I do if I want to win you over to becoming an omnivore, like me?	那么丹，如果我想把你变成像我一样的杂食者，我该怎么做？
[03:24.67]Dan: According to Dr Jutta, there are two main routes to winning someone over: a direct, fact-based approach or a 'peripheral route', which might be more effective. 据朱塔博士所言，有两种方法可以说服某人：一种是直接的、基于事实的方法，另一种事“外围方法”，第二种可能更有效。
[03:35.29]Let's hear her explain how it works.	我们来听听她解释第二种方法是如何凑效的。
[03:37.44]If I'm working with you and I'm trying to get you to come round to my side, I might not focus on the central facts. 如果我和你一起工作，我想让你站我的队来支持我，我可能不会关注核心事实。
[03:45.00]I might focus on the peripheral stuff around how I'm constructing my argument. 我可能会围绕如何构建我的论点来关注周边事物。
[03:50.70]I'd look for ways of how they overlap as people, like what do they have in common? 我会寻找他们与他人重合的部分，比如他们有什么共同点？
[03:55.29]And that's a way to debate an issue such as this controversial one in a way to get people to feel connected to each other and to actually feel that they value each other as decent human beings.	这是一种讨论这样一个有争议的问题的方式，通过这种方式，让人们感到彼此相互联系，并真切地感受到他们将对方视为正派的人。
[04:07.34]Rob: Interesting! This is a more subtle way of winning an argument. 有意思！这是一种赢得争论的更微妙的方式。
[04:12.59]She says we should focus on the peripheral stuff - these are the things that are not as important as the main argument but are connected to it.	她说，我们应该把注意力集中在次要的事情上――这些事情不如主要论点那么重要，但却与之相关。
[04:20.10]Dan: So we could say we're looking for common ground - things that both sides agree on or at least understand. 所以我们可以说我们在寻找共同点――即双方都同意、至少都理解的事情。
[04:26.43]Dr Jutta talked about making both sides feel connected. 朱塔博士让双方感到有联系。
[04:29.88]And it's a good point. 这是一个很好的观点。
[04:31.23]Even if you don't want to be a vegan, you should respect someone's choice to be one.	即使你不想成为素食主义者，你应该尊重别人的选择。
[04:35.41]Rob: Yes, it's all about valuing someone as a decent human being. 对，就是要把对方看作一个正派的人。
[04:39.34]Decent means 'good and having good moral standards'. “Decent”（正派）的意思是“好的，有好的道德标准的”。
[04:42.79]Like us, Dan!	像我们一样，丹！
[04:43.62]Dan: Well, they're wise words, Rob! Of course, it would be morally wrong - immoral - not to give you the answer to our quiz question. 嗯，这些话很有道理，罗布！当然，不给测试问题的答案是不道德的。
[04:51.30]Earlier I asked which one of these items can a lacto-ovo-vegetarian eat.	早些时候我问过乳蛋素食者可以吃这些食物中的哪一种。
[04:56.34]Rob: I said b) fish.	我选的是b)鱼。
[04:58.10]Dan: Sorry, no - that's something they can't eat - but they can eat cheese. 抱歉，答错了，鱼是他们不能吃的东西，但他们可以吃奶酪。
[05:04.29]A lacto-ovo-vegetarian is a person who eats vegetables, eggs, and dairy products but does not eat meat.	乳蛋素食者是吃蔬菜、鸡蛋和乳制品但不吃肉的人。
[05:12.10]Rob: No meat! No steak! How can they enjoy eating?!	没有肉！没有牛排！他们怎么能享受美食呢？
[05:15.50]Dan: Rob, remember as a decent human beings, we respect all views here.	罗伯，记住，作为一个正派的人，我们尊重这里的所有观点。
[05:20.15]Rob: Just joking - but now I'm deadly serious about reviewing some of the vocabulary we've discussed today.	只是开个玩笑，不过现在我非常认真地复习我们今天讨论过的一些词汇。
[05:25.91]Dan: OK. Our first word was fad. 好的，我们学的第一个词是fad。
[05:28.90]A fad is something that is popular but only for a short time.	“fad”(时尚)是一种流行的东西，但只会流行很短的时间。
[05:32.78]Rob: Next, we mentioned mainstream. 接下来，我们提到了mainstream（主流）。
[05:35.17]Something that is mainstream has become accepted by most people as normal.	主流的东西即已经被大多数人视为正常的东西。
[05:39.43]Dan: Then we had polarised - that describes a situation that causes people to divide into two groups with opposing views.	然后我们学了“polarised”（两极分化），两极分化形容的是 一种导致人们分成两组持有相反的观点的人的情况。
[05:47.45]Rob: A belief is something we feel is true or real. “belief”(信念)是我们认为是对的或者重要的东西。
[05:50.64]And immoral describes something that society thinks is wrong or not acceptable.	“而immoral（不道德）描述的是社会认为是错误的或不可接受的东西。
[05:54.83]Dan: We also mentioned peripheral, which relates to things that are not as important as the main argument, but are connected to it. 我们还提到了“外围”（ peripheral），指的是那些不像主要论点那么重要，但却与之相关的事情。
[06:02.20]It also means situated on the edge.	这个词还有一个意思是位于边缘。
[06:04.72]Rob: And finally, decent means good or good enough.	最后，“decent”（正派的）意思是好的或者足够好的。
[06:08.24]Dan: Don't forget you can learn more English with us on our website at bbclearningenglish.com.	别忘了你可以在我们的网站bbclearningenglish.com上学习更多的英语内容。
[06:13.52]Rob: Bye for now.	再见。
[06:14.46]Dan: Goodbye.	再见。

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关于素食主义的辩论：如何改变他人的观点？