Reporter: Now, CNBC exclusive, we welcome back business legend Jack Welch, former chairman and CEO of General Electric. All right, Mr. Welch, it is always wonderful to see you sir. We’ve got to do the news of the day, it’s not exactly what I thought we were going to talk about, but we will get to your Financial Times interview in a moment or two. I’ve got sound from Ben Bemanke last night on 60 Minutes about AIG. If you would just take a listen, and then we’ll talk.
记者：现在是美国广播公司财经频道独家报 道时间，让我们欢迎商业奇才、通用电气前 主席及首席执行官——杰克韦尔奇先生。 韦尔奇先生，每次见到您总是很愉快，我们 今天是要做一期新闻。但是不是我们今天 讨论的主要话题。我们稍后先来谈一下您在 《金融时报》接受的采访吧。咋天晚上美联 储主席伯南克在《60分钟》中谈论到美国国 际公司，首先您听一下，然翩谈。
Fed Chairman Bernanke on 60 Minutes: I slammed the phone more than a few times on discussing AIG. I understand why the American people are angry. It’s absolutely unfair that taxpayer dollars are going to prop up a company that made these terrible bets, that was operating out of the sight of regulators, but which we have no choice but to stabilize, or else risk enormous impact, not just in the financial system, but on the whole US economy.
美联储主席伯南克在《60分钟》节目的 访谈：在讨论有关AIG的问题时，我挂 掉过很多电话，我知道美国人民生气的 原因。将纳税人的钱用于资助那些很糟 糕的公司是绝对不公平的，这个公司躲 开了监管人的视线进行运营。但是我们 没有别的选择，只能继续坚定下去，否 则不仅金融体系会面临巨大的风险，整个美国经济也会受到很大的影响。
Reporter: You know Jack, I hate like heck to sound like Barney Frank, but I think I’m going to sound like Barney Frank by asking you this question. If the US government can cram down General Motors auto workers, the UAW contracts, compensation, benefits and what not, why can’t we cram down AIG? After all, really unlike GM, at least so far, the American taxpayer is the primary owner of AIG，certainly the primary creditor.
记者：杰克，我不想听起来像巴尼弗兰 克，但是我想问您一个问题，我想会听起 来很像他：如果美国政府能够强行批准通 用汽车的员工、联合汽车工会的合同、补 偿金、保险金等这一切，为什么不能够强 行批准AIG破产呢？毕竟，不像通用汽 车那样，至少迄今为止，美国纳税人是 AIG的主要拥有者，当然也是主要债权人。
Welch: Hey Larry, why don't we step back for a minute. There’s been 24 hours of wild emotion over this thing. Who owns AIG? The US government owns AIG. Now why are they not taking charge of their situation? They appointed a CEO; it’s their CEO. He happens to be a very good man, Ed Liddy, who ran Allstate for many years. They ought to be working as a board of directors with their CEO on what the compensation ought to be. Then they ought to be either agreeing with their CEO, who，s making $1 a year, and doing it as a good citizen, or they ought to get their own man in there, this administration ought to put somebody in.
韦尔奇：拉里，让我们退一步来看一些 事情，人们对这件事情无时无刻不有着 激动的情绪。谁拥有AIG是美国政 府。那他们现在为什么不去处理那些情 况呢？他们任命了一名首席执行官，那 是一名很好的首席执行官——爱德华 利迪，他领导了好事达保险公司很多年。 政府的人应该像董事会的人一样，与首 席执行官一起讨论补偿金的问题，然后 他们应该同意那个每年只挣1美元的首 席执行官在一些方面提出的意见，来做 一个好市民；或者应该派自己的人去那 个公司执政，管理行政等方面的事情。
Reporter: Geithner and his group should have called Liddy down to Washington. I don’t understand this. And just sat him down and say, okay, here is the way life works. Here’s the way it’s going to work. Is that what you’re saying?
记者：我不明白的是，财长盖特纳和他 的团队应该把利迪叫到华盛顿，让他坐 下然后说，生活应该这样进行，公司应 该这样运营，您是这个意思吗？
Welch: It should have been resolved between Liddy and the Treasury, or the Fed, or whoever it is that represents the US government who is the owner of AIG! The idea that these guys who own it, can now all throw rocks at it, makes no sense. It would be like a board of directors throwing rocks from the outside and not being responsible.
韦尔奇：这个应该是利迪和财政部、美 联储或者是任何能够代表美国政府的部 门也就是AIG的拥有者之间需要解决的 问题，拥有AIG的人们应该强烈反对美 国政府的想法，那是没有意义的，这就 像是公司的董事会成员不负责任地在外 对公司进行轰击一样。
Reporter: Well why didn't we put them in bankruptcy in the first place? Some kind of government sponsored bankruptcy which nullifies and voids all the contracts? Why didn’t we do that? In fact, for that matter, why didn’t we do it for General Motors?
记者：那我们为什么不在第一时间让其 申请破产呢？ 一些政府申请的破产可以使得那些合约无效，我们为什么不那样 做呢？事实上，关于那一点，我们为什 么不对通用汽车也做同样的事情呢？
Welch: Look Larry, I’m not going to get into whether Lehman was right, AIG was right, the way they handled that. We’ve already crossed that bridge. I want to stay on this one though. I don’t think these guys as owners， are acting like owners who want to get their $180 billion dollars back. They’re not acting like owners. Let’s challenge them to work with the chairman, to work as a board of directors. Have them designate Geithner, or Bemanke, or whoever，and have them work it out so that the government is working in concert with the CEO, not at cross—purposes.
韦尔奇：拉里，我不讨论雷曼是否正确， AIG是否正确以及他们处理这件事情的 方式是否正确。我们已经说过那些了， 但是我还是想谈论这一个话题。我不把 那些人当作拥有者，他们不像真正的拥 有者一样想要拿回他们的1800亿美元， 他们的表现并不像是拥有者。通过让他 们与主席、与董事会一起工作来考验他 们，让他们指派盖特纳或者伯南克来工 作，使政府与公司的首席执行官一起合 作，而不是相反的目的。
Reporter: So what you’re saying is we need a grownup in the Treasury. Is that what you’re saying? We need someone with some business seasoning in the Treasury to do exactly the kind of thing you’re recommending?
记者：所以您的意思是，财政部有些方面 需要改进，是吗？财政部里需要一些有商 业头脑的人去做你所建议的那些事情。
Welch: We need a government group representing the owners who are responsible for dealing with the CEO in the same way governance happens in any company. Not having the government owns the company!
韦尔奇：我们需要一个能够代表公司所 有者的政府小组，他们能够负责任地用任 何一个公司的管理方式来与首席执行官一 起管理公司，而不是让政府拥有公司！
Reporter: So they're really not doing their job. They’re whining a lot. They're whining a lot, they’re throwing a lot of faux populism. But you’re saying they have other tools. They should just do their job.
记者：所以其实他们并没有做好自己的 本职工作，他们是一直在抱怨着很多事 情，伪造着平民主义论。但是你说他们 还有其他的方法，就是做好自己的工作。
Welch: My argument is Larry, they ought to work with the CEO as any owner would. As we do with our private equity companies. Try to encourage the CEO to get the right answer so we get a return on our money. I don’t want this $180 billion to just go up in smoke because we’re all fighting with each other.
韦尔奇拉里，我是说他们应该像其他 所有者一样，与首席执行官很好地合 作，就像我们对那些私人证券公司做的 一样。试着鼓励首席执行官去得到正确 的答案，那样我们也能得到我们应有的 回报，我们不想因为彼此间的斗争而使 这1800亿美元化为乌有。
Reporter: Okay. Anyway, Ben Bernanke makes his national television debut on 60 Minutes. They have a couple more viewers than his usual CNBC venue. Here’s Mr. Bemanke on the economy with a touch of optimism Let’s hear it.
记者：好的。本伯南克在《60分钟》 进行了他的首次电视亮相，那一次的观 众比CNBC通常的采访都要多。下面是伯南克先生积极乐观地谈论经济，让我 们来听一下。
Ben Bernanke: We’ll see the recession coming to an end, probably this year. We’ll see recover> beginning next year. In the sense that this decline will begin to moderate, and we’ll begin to see leveling off.
本伯南克：我们可以看 到，经济衰退也许在今年就要结束了， 明年经济就要开始复苏。衰退的趋势即 将缓和，从这个层面上来说，我们将会 看到经济局面的稳定。
Reporter: All right Jack, what do you think? That’s his forecast. Now he’s had some that turned out okay, and some not okay, and we’re all of that. What do you make of it?
记者：好了杰克，这是他的预言，您是 怎么想的呢？现如今有的预言已经成为 现实，而有的还没有实现，我们对此感 到很内疚。你对此有什么看法呢？
Welch: Well I’m sort of in his corner. I’m not a great expert on this, but I’m in his comer.
韦尔奇：我同意他的说法，虽然在这方面 我并不是个专家，但是我同意他的说法。
Reporter: You know, I worked for Arthur Burns and Paul Volcker at the New York Fed. Of course like you I knew Greenspan very，very well. I think this is the best television communications performance of any Fed chairman in my lifetime. And I agree with you sir, he did get the job done. And I think he did more to help Obama and all the issues toward recovery than anything we’ve seen so far. He deserves reappointment doesn’t he?
记者：您知道，我以前在纽约联储银行 为亚瑟伯恩斯和保罗.福尔克工作过， 当然像您一样，我非常熟悉格林斯潘， 我觉得他是联储银行电视通信方面表现 最好的。我同意您的看法，他将工作完 成得很好，我认为他帮了奥巴马很多 忙，对于经济复苏他做的事情也远比我 们所知道的要多得多，他理应获得连任 的，对吗？
Welch: Absolutely Larry. He did a job on a broad spectrum He grabbed the country and he challenged the politicians.
韦尔奇：绝对是的拉里，他做了很多方 面的工作，他对我们国家作出了贡献， 并且考验了那些政治家们。
Reporter: All right. So Jack, you give a little interview in the Financial Times. It says here Jack Welch regarded as the father of shareholder value, he is now saying the obsession with short term profits is all wrong. And I’m going to read you the key quote, the money quote. “On the face of it Mr. Welch said, shareholder value is the dumbest idea in the world. Shareholder value is a result, not a strategy.” Please, elaborate.
记者：是的。所以杰克，你接受了《金 融时报》的采访，上面说杰克韦尔奇被 视为股东价值之父，但他只着迷于短期 的利益是错误的。接下来我要为您读那 一条关键的，有关于金钱的引言：“韦尔 奇先生说，面对金钱，股东价值是世界 上最愚蠢的想法，股东价值是一个结果 而并不是一个策略。”请您详细说明一下。
Welch: Larry, I was having an interview on the future of capitalism. And I was asked, what do you think of shareholder value as a strategy? I said it’s the dumbest idea possible. It isn’t a strategy; it’s an outcome. A optimism recovery r decline n. guilty adj. spectrum politician strategy is something like, an innovative new product; globalization, taking your products around the world; be the low-cost producer. A strategy is something you can touch; you can motivate people with; be number one and number two in every business. You can energize people around the message. They come to work every day. It’s tangible. It’s something they can feel and be proud of. Shareholder value? What the hell is that Larry? It’s the result of you doing a great job, watching your share price go up, your shareholders win, and dividends increasing.
韦尔奇：拉里，我之前接受了一次有关 资本主义未来的采访。记得我被问到， 我对于把股东价值作为一项策略的看法 是什么，我说我认为那是最愚蠢的想法， 那不是一项策略，而是一个结果。策略是指诸如一个新发明的产品、全球化、将 产品推向全世界或者成为价格低廉的生产 商之类的，策略是你可以触及到的东西， 可以用于鼓励人们，在一个商业领域使自 己成为数一数二的企业。你可以就此信息 让人们充满热情。他们每天上班，这是实 际的。它是可以感觉到存在并且让人们感 到骄傲的东西。股东价值？拉里，那到底 是什么东西？那是你完成一项伟大的任 务，看到自己的股票价格上涨，你的股东 获得利益，分红增加。
Reporter: But we’ve got to have profits. Profits are the mother's milk...
记者：但是我们必须要获利，利益是母 乳……
Welch: Absolutely!
韦尔奇：当然是的！
Reporter: ...not just of the stock, but of the whole company. A healthy company’s got to have earnings. And it’s got to have capital investment. Now, what do you say now? What’s your advice now? Or let me put it differently. If you were at the business roundtable meeting yesterday, all the bigwigs met with President Obama-not yesterday Thursday, I beg your pardon. I’m time insensitive. If you were there, what strategy would you have recommended to your colleagues and to your president?
记者：利益不仅对于股票，对于整个公 司都是很重要的。一个发展良好的公司 必须要有盈利，也必须要有资本投资。 那您现在的看法是什么呢？您有什么建 议呢？或者我用另外一种方式来说，如 果您昨天参加了一次商业圆桌会议，奥 巴马总统也参加了那次会议，哦对不 起，不是昨天，周四，我对时间不太敏 感。如果您参加了那次会议，您会给您 的同事和总统先生怎样的建议呢？
Welch: Look, it’s always the same. You’ve got to deliver on short-range commitments, while you develop a long-range strategy and vision and implement it. The success of doing both. Getting it done in the short-range, and delivering a long-range plan, and executing on that. That is what it’s all about. That’s what management is— making choices. Any jerk can have short-term earnings. You squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, and the company sinks five years later. Any jerk can sit there and say, “hey，come back in five years, I'm doing my long-range thinking.” Get out of here. Management is all about managing in the short term, while developing the plans for the long term.
韦尔奇：那些事情总是一样的。当你提 出了一项长期的策略和远见而且执行时， 你必须要作出一些短期的承诺，要想获 得成功，这两件事情都是必须要做的。 使目标可以在短期内实现，制定一个长 期的计划并且努力去实施它。那就是所 有的事情，那就是管理——即作出决定。 任何一个笨蛋都有可能获得短期的利益， 使劲挤使劲挤，然后公司5年后开始衰 退，笨蛋都可以坐在那里说，5年之后再 回来吧，我现在正在做长期的规划。事 实并不是这样的，管理是短期内的管理， 而实施某项计划则是长期的。