Reporter: From an attach -rate issue, the argument out there has always been that you have to be competitive. I can put the HP peripherals or anything I want to attach to it, but if it puts me in a position where I’m trying to deliver a solution and it’s not price-competitive...
记者：大家对于附加率问题的讨论一直 都是，你必须要具有竞争力。我可以把 惠普的外围设备或者其他任何我想要附 加的给加上，但是如果要求我提供一个解 决方案，它却不具有价格竞争力……
Hurd: Then shame on us. Because our job is to have our products competitive as point products and competitive as bundles. And frankly we want to put more energy behind that attach. Let’s say we’re going to put this economic hook in place so that you represent these poorly positioned products to the marketplace. Our objective is to say, “We think we’ve got great products, and we want to put incentives for aligning those products together to put a better configuration, a better basket of goods if you will, in front of the end customer. ”
赫德：那是我们的耻辱。因为我们的工 作是使我们的产品无论是作为尖端产品 还是作为捆绑产品都具有竞争力。坦白 地说，我们希望附加上投入更多的精力。 比方说，我们要落实这一经济政策，以 便那些处于不利地位的产品推向市场。 我们的目标是，“我们相信我们拥有伟大 的产品，我们希望在我们的最终用户面 前，这些产品会齐头并进有一个更好的 商品组合以鼓励我们不断前进。”
Reporter: Can you talk a little bit about when you first came in here, and you were looking at the direct vs. the indirect. What were the metrics you were looking at?
记者：您能谈谈当您第一次到这里来的 时候，您是如何看待直销与间接销售的 呢？您关注的度量标准是什么呢？
Hurd: And I’ll just give you an example: A number of years ago, IBM (NYSE: IBM) did a very in-depth analysis on direct vs. indirect, just in the PC space, because everyone said direct was absolutely more profitable. And they went out and did little things like, OK, if that ad. in that newspaper is really driven to get somebody to buy direct, then we’d better assign that cost to the direct side of the business. So when they did all of that, in the PC space, they found it was less than one percentage point difference.
赫德：我来给你举个例子：数年前， IBM公司（纽约证券交易所：IBM)在 电脑空间方面作了非常深入的直销与间 接销售的调查，因为每个人都说直销绝 对更加有利可图。然后他们走了出去， 去调查诸如此类的事情。比如：是否那 家报纸的广告，确实会让人们直接购买 他们的产品。那么我们就把这项花费归 之为对企业直销的一面。因此，当他们 在PC领域做完所有这一切时，他们发 现这是不到一个百分点的差别。
Reporter: Obviously, you did this over a much larger product set. Are there places where you say, as you really look at the data, that the channel is more profitable for us and are there places where direct is more profitable?
记者：很明显，你是在一个更大的产品 范围内调查的。那么是否在有些场合你会就像是看着数据一样说，这一渠道对 我们更有利，在那些领域直销更有利呢？
Hurd: You can find data to support any thesis. You’ve got to be careful to normalize the data. For example, it would be unfair for us to say our cost of an order direct is more expensive than the cost of an order indirect if we didn’t normalize the volume. Today, the cost of an order for us indirect is actually less expensive than the cost of an order direct. But the bulk of our business is not direct. So you have to go normalize it and say, listen, in a normalized state what would the two look like? So for example we get tremendous cash-flow turns by dealing with our partners. It’s different when you go direct because you actually have to have more people shipping and packing more orders. So when I sell you a PC one at a time, I have to go collect for that PC. When I sell you a thousand PCs and then you sell them one at a time, I’m going to send you one bill for a thousand PCs. I've lowered my administrative overhead. So you’ve got to get through all that process and understand what is the true infrastructure overhead that you’ve got to go serve that customer or that partner. We somehow had ourselves convinced that a person deployed in the marketplace had to sell direct as opposed to creating demand for Hewlett—Packard. We want people in the marketplace creating demand for Hewlett— Packard. Then we can decide what the appropriate route is to get that demand fulfilled. But in the end, we need to make sure we’ve got the marketplace covered, so that the buying points on the planet that make sense for HP have some sort of demand-creation expertise.
赫德：你可以找到数据来支持任何理 论，但是你必须要仔细认真地使数据正 常化。例如，如果我们未将容量正常化 就说我们的直接订单成本比间接订单成 本更昂贵，这是不公平的。今天，我们 的订单实际上是间接成本与直接订单 成本相比要少得多。但是，我们的业务 大部分不是直接的。所以你必须去正常 化，在规范化的状态上去听去说，这两 种是什么样子呢？因此，比如我们和合 作伙伴打交道需要大量的现金流动。它 不同于你直接的时候，因为这 实际上需要有更多的人来运输 和包装更多的订单。因此，我 一旦卖给你一台电脑，我必须 去收钱。当我卖给你1000台 个人电脑，然后你负责零售， 我就直接把1000台电脑账单 寄给你。我已经降低了我的管 理开销。所以，你得经历所有 的过程，了解什么是真正的基础设施的 开销，你得去服务客户或合作伙伴。我 们都相信一个人在市场上部署的零售商 必须直接销售，不是为惠普创造需求。 我们希望人们为惠普的市场创造需求。 然后我们就可以找到合适的途径使这种 需求得到满足。但到最后，我们需要确 保覆盖市场，使与惠普相关的全绿的购 买点都具有创造需求的专业技能。
Reporter: Well, that’s kind of an interesting point, because one of the things you will hear out there is that some solution providers will tell you that HP doesn’t have as many people on the street as some others to help them sell. But what you’re really saying is if you have someone out there just creating demand, you actually get a bigger benefit out of that than having somebody just dedicated to creating demand for channel or creating demand for direct sales. What would you say?
记者：这是一个有趣的问题，因为你会听 到供应商都会告诉你，惠普公司并没有像基础设施某些企业一样很多人在街头来帮助他们销 售。但是你真正的意思是如果你在那里有 一部分人就是只负责创造需求，实际上比 起那些让一些人致力于为渠道创造需求或 为直销创造需求的企业，你 将获利更大。你怎么看？
Hurd: I agree at a macro level, very generalized without any specifics, I agree with that view, that we have too few people out in the marketplace with a Hewlett—Packard badge creating demand for HP products. And we’re going to go fix that. So we’re investing in sales people today. That said, I don’t want that message to be perceived that we，re trying to eliminate the channel as we put people out there. That’s not the message at all. We，re trying to create more demand for HP. And as I explain in individual partner meetings, I get partners who say, This is great! But sometimes it’s interpreted as we’re trying to come be in conflict with our partners. That’s not the case. If we’re in conflict with a partner, it'll be a different issue from this.
赫德：从宏观整体的角度来 说，从不考虑细节的广义上 来说，我同意这个观点。在 市场中，戴着惠普标识为 惠普产品创造需求的人太少 了，我们将会解决这个问题。所以我们 现在还在对公司的销售人员方面进行投 资，也就是说，我们并不希望向人们传 达出我们把人员调离那些领域就代表我 们将会减少项目开发的信息，那根本不 是我们想要传达的。我们努力提高惠普 的需求量。正如我在合作伙伴会议上解 释的那样，我们的合伙人有时会说“那 实在是太棒了”，但是这有可能被认为 是我们与合伙人有冲突的表现，事实上 并不是那样的。如果真的与合作伙伴有 冲突，那我们现在面临就是一个不同的 形势了。
Reporter: So are there some markets where it makes more sense to go direct for you than it does through an indirect model?
记者：有那样的市场存在吗，运用直销 的方式会比间接销售的方式给公司创造 更多利润的市场？
Hurd: I don’t know that I would define it as markets. I think it’s better if we define it a bit more from the perspective of customer. Clearly in SMB, you’re going to see us very, very reliant on the channel.
赫德：我不确定我们是否应该将其定义 为市场，我认为如果我们从顾客的角度 来定义的话会更好。当然在SMB方面， 我们是非常依赖于销售渠道的。
Reporter: What do you mean when you say SMB? Because everybody has got a different explanation.
记者：您所说的SMB指的是什么呢？ 大家对此有很多不同的看法。
Hurd: We’ re going to be almost exclusively channel-oriented through that market. I mean, if a customer said, you’ve absolutely got to do this direct or they’re going to go to HP.com or something, that’s fine. We want to put multiple distribution methods so the customer can choose. We’re not going to dictate in entirety how they do it. But our predominant view is going to be to leverage the channel.
赫德：在市场中我们几乎专门以渠道为 导向。我的意思是，如果我们的顾客对我们说，你们必须进行直销，否则他们 将会去惠普的网站得到相应的服务，那 是很不错的。我们想要拥有多种产品分 配模式，那样顾客就可以进行自主选 择。我们不会完全指令他们怎样做，但 是我们主导的观点就是影响销售渠道。
Reporter: Talk a little bit about compensation This new channel program to me is really a compensation program ultimately. And compensation drives behavior. It drives behavior with a direct sales force; it drives behavior with an indirect sales force. And this is pretty innovative from what I see.
记者：让我们来谈一下有关补偿金的问 题。在我看来，此次的新渠道开发项目最 终是一次率卜偿项目。补偿金的问题可以影 响人们的行为，它可以以其直接的销售力 量影响人们的行为，也可以有间接的销售 力量。这个问题对我来说是有创新性的。
Hurd: I don’t think compensation is the only thing that drives behavior. If you went into your own employees, you could ask the question. And compensation isn’t the No. 1 thing that drives our employees. Sometimes they say it is, but in the end it’s being part of a winning team. When you’re part of a winning team, we all know, go look at an analogy of a sports team. There are plenty of examples of people who take a cut in pay so they can be on a team that wins the Superbowl. Why do they do that? They like to win. So you can’t show up with just a compensation plan. You’ve got to show up with winning products. You’ve got to show up with a winning environment, where partners feel like they can go to the marketplace and they can win. So one of the real risks you have when you go through the channel—there's very few of these，but we actually have a few bad actors. If they use our brand as the lead, fill it up with non-HP product, so they can get more margin, but what sits in front of that consumer is the HP brand, then what happens is a huge failure rate in that product. We take a lot of accountability for that. So one dimension that gets some of the direct mania that you see out there is better control structure over all that. I have better control structure over the elements of the solution that go to the customer, I have better control over the support that goes to the customer. You’ve got to bank on your partners doing the right thing, and most of ours do.
赫德：我并不认为只有补偿金可以影响 人们的行为。你可以问一下你自己的员 工，这究竟是怎样的影响，但是它绝对 不是促进我们公司员工进步的首要动 力。有时候他们会说事实的确是那样 的，但是最终的结果却表明，它只是取 得成功的队伍所得到的一部分而已。当 你是一个成功团队中的一员时，用运动 队来做一个类比。有很多事例向我们证 明，有很多人都愿意以一个较低的收入 加入到能够羸得超级碗的队伍中去。为 什么他们会那样做呢？因为他们想要 臝。所以你不能仅仅以一个补偿计划来 吸引人们的注意力，你需要用公司能够 大获成功的产品来吸引他们，你需要有 一个制造胜利的环境，那样的话你的合 伙人才愿意加入到市场中去，才有信心 能够取得成功。所以在你通过渠到时面 对的真正风险，虽然不多，但我们肯定 会遇到一些麻烦。如果一些销售商利用 我们的品牌作为引导，但是实际上却卖非惠普的产品，因为那样他们会有更大 的盈利空间，那么呈现在顾客面前的就是 惠普的品牌以及极高的产品失效率。对此 我们负有极大的责任。所以你看到的要形 成直销狂潮，就必须有一个更好的控制体 系。在解决顾客的商品问题方面，我们已 经有不错的控制体系，我们也对顾客给予 足够的支持，我们必须要寄希望于我们的 合伙人能够做正确的事情，当然我们大多 数的合伙人都是那样做的。
Reporter: Obviously there’s nothing wrong with any company wanting its solution provider partners to sell more of its product. I mean that’s kind of a basic tenet of business. But what do you say about somebody who's doing maybe $100 million or more in HP but has large practices in some of your competitors? Is it any different for them than for anyone who might be 100 percent-dedicated to HP and maybe smaller?
记者：很明显对于任何公司来说，他们 希望自己的合伙人能够卖出更多他们的 产品，这是没有什么问题的，这是商业 的一个基本原则。但是如果你们的一个 能够卖出价值1亿美元或者更多的惠普 产品合作伙伴，而同时又是你们竞争对 手的合伙人，对于这个问题您怎么看 呢？与那些只卖惠普产品的小合作伙伴 相比，他们有什么不同呢？
Hurd: Well, we think it’s easier if you’re 100 percent-dedicated to HP. But the world isn’t 100 percent HP. We’d like it to be. But I think it’s not an objective for at least my tenure. But yeah, we have to deal with a world that's mixed but partners have to decide. To get back to your earlier point, our compensation program in isolation isn’t going to drive anybody to buy, by definition, more HP. It’s got to be because our products and solutions and our support are compelling. So in the end that’s what’s going to be the primary driver. I think all the compensation program tries to do is get them more engaged with HP. of the direct mania that you see out there is better control structure over all that. I have better control structure over the elements of the solution that go to the customer, I have better control over the support that goes to the customer. You’ve got to bank on your partners doing the right thing, and most of ours do.
赫德：我认为，如果我们的合伙人只卖 惠普产品的话，那事情就会变得比较简 单了。但是这个世界并不完全属于惠普， 我们希望是那样的，但是至少在我的任 期内，那并不是我们努力的目标。是的， 现在的世界是一个混合的世界，合伙人 必须要决定他们要做什么。回到你之前 提到的那一点，我们的补偿金计划并不 仅仅是为了促使人们购买更多的惠普产 品，而是因为我们的产品、问题解决方 式等使得我们必须要那样做。所以最终 它就成为了我们的主要推动力。我想， 我们的补偿金计划的最终目的就是使更 多的人能够专注于惠普产品。非惠普的产品，因为那样他们会有更大 的盈利空间，那么呈现在顾客面前的就是 惠普的品牌以及极高的产品失效率。对此 我们负有极大的责任。所以你看到的要形 成直销狂潮，就必须有一个更好的控制体 系。在解决顾客的商品问题方面，我们已 经有不错的控制体系，我们也对顾客给予 足够的支持，我们必须要寄希望于我们的 合伙人能够做正确的事情，当然我们大多 数的合伙人都是那样做的。
Reporter: Obviously there’s nothing wrong with any company wanting its solution provider partners to sell more of its product. I mean that’s kind of a basic tenet of business. But what do you say about somebody who's doing maybe $100 million or more in HP but has large practices in some of your competitors? Is it any different for them than for anyone who might be 100 percent-dedicated to HP and maybe smaller?
记者：很明显对于任何公司来说，他们 希望自己的合伙人能够卖出更多他们的 产品，这是没有什么问题的，这是商业 的一个基本原则。但是如果你们的一个 能够卖出价值1亿美元或者更多的惠普 产品合作伙伴，而同时又是你们竞争对 手的合伙人，对于这个问题您怎么看 呢？与那些只卖惠普产品的小合作伙伴 相比，他们有什么不同呢？
Hurd: Well, we think it’s easier if you’re 100 percent-dedicated to HP. But the world isn’t 100 percent HP. We’d like it to be. But I think it’s not an objective for at least my tenure. But yeah, we have to deal with a world that's mixed but partners have to decide. To get back to your earlier point, our compensation program in isolation isn’t going to drive anybody to buy, by definition, more HP. It’s got to be because our products and solutions and our support are compelling. So in the end that’s what’s going to be the primary driver. I think all the compensation program tries to do is get them more engaged with HP.
赫德：我认为，如果我们的合伙人只卖 惠普产品的话，那事情就会变得比较简 单了。但是这个世界并不完全属于惠普， 我们希望是那样的，但是至少在我的任 期内，那并不是我们努力的目标。是的， 现在的世界是一个混合的世界，合伙人 必须要决定他们要做什么。回到你之前 提到的那一点，我们的补偿金计划并不 仅仅是为了促使人们购买更多的惠普产 品，而是因为我们的产品、问题解决方 式等使得我们必须要那样做。所以最终 它就成为了我们的主要推动力。我想， 我们的补偿金计划的最终目的就是使更 多的人能够专注于惠普产品。